Source: Dan McClellan, A case study in how NOT to engage anti-mormons. Channel: Thoughtful Faith Published: August 23, 2023 | Archived: May 5, 2026

Video: Dan McClellan, A case study in how NOT to engage anti-mormons.
Channel: Thoughtful Faith
Published: August 23, 2023
Duration: 9:22
Views: 22,193
Category: People & Blogs
Video ID: NZqOnDiesn0

Description

I’m not a hard literalist, but is this kind of interview helpful? What is John Dehlin’s agenda? Is Dan McClellan helping that agenda? Are we to stand as witnesses at all times and in all things and in all places? Witnesses of what exactly? Is this what we should expect from public LDS figures?

#mormon #mormonstories #Johndehlin #DanMcClellan

Tags

John Dehlin Thoughtful Faith Mormon LDS Latter Day Saint Mormon Stories Dan McClellan

Transcript — YouTube panel (human-authored)

0:00 foreign so the other day Dan McClellan a former BYU professor went on John delin’s Mormon stories podcast John Dylan is perhaps the largest single purveyor of anti-mormon content online now some were expecting Dan as a member of the church to push back on some of John’s rabid anti-mormon content online however I don’t think that was exactly what happened now I encourage everyone to go and watch the full interview but I think in what follows you’ll get a pretty good idea for why John Dillon walked away very happy from this interview you said a member but but believing member on some level or do you not like to use that term I don’t like to well I one thing I’ve done on social media is say my beliefs are are off limits I don’t address what I believe and so I I consider calling myself a believing member to fall into addressing what I believe what I think about this while also to some degree suspending judgment and I think a lot

1:10 you know a lot of people have faith in a historical Book of Mormon and to the degree that faith is um evidence for things hoped for and and not seen you should not expect the data to support what you have faith in and they don’t the uh the data pretty firmly points in the opposite direction of a historical Book of Mormon and so that is why I talk about the Book of Mormon as something that’s uh is the data indicate it is a product of the 19th century and the Book of Mormon yes that’s that’s what I would argue the data indicate so if I look if it’s all right do this little exercise with me okay um and then we’ll get back to your ending your church employment um if I were to do a roll call of an abbreviated roll call of your interpretation of what the data lead to on the following let’s just say 15 teachings in in the scriptures okay I want to hear your ruling on each one is that okay yeah so like a literal Adam and Eve existing six thousand years ago

2:23 as the first humans uh uh Genesis 2 and 3 are probably a uh Temple text of some kind from uh the 8th Century BC 8th 7th Century BCE brought together from a handful of different Traditions that were in circulation um and so I don’t think it was intended to be understood literally it’s an etiology for how things got to be the way they are and um and so the Bible does not present that as a historical claim and the data don’t support it what about Mormon apologists that have wanted to tie the modern Mormon temple ceremony to the Ancient Temple ceremony of Jews during the Old Testament time periods the data seemed to me based on the scholarship that I have seen to indicate that this is more a an innovation on a masonic approach to these rituals that has been kind of expanded and innovated on by Latter-Day Saints who are um trying to recreate what they understand to be Ancient Temple worship but in ancient temples there

3:35 there were many many differences um that’s not to say there are not resonances but they are I would say they are few and far between and then if we switched and I don’t know if there’s other big Old Testament ones or if we’ve kind of covered them if we want to switch and you could tell me are there or do we think we got the main ones I think those are the ones that the Latter-Day Saints would be most concerned with and then if we switch to the New Testament like a literal Jesus who uh died and was resurrected and was the son of God so um Resurrection is another thing that from an academic point of view that’s a physical impossibility and so without extraordinary evidence for that there’s no way you a scholar can say yeah this makes sense because it doesn’t it violates everything we know about the operation of the universe and so the the bar for that kind of evidence is even higher and we don’t have data that come anywhere near getting us over that bar

4:41 and so from a scholarly point of view the resurrection is something that that is not supported by the data there uh the overwhelming majority of Scholars agree that there was a historical Jesus of Nazareth who was probably an apocalyptic itinerant preacher who probably preached against the Roman Empire and preached the coming of the kingdom of God imminently and was executed because of it and then we have Jesus’s followers afterwards spreading stories about his uh coming back to life and Ministry before um leaving again going back to the end of your employment with the church I could just see how all sorts of um maybe even good or well-intended church leaders would say we got to get Dan out of here because the implications of what is teaching is not in the long term good for orthodox Mormon faith and I’ve considered that as long as I have supporters and detractors across the entire spectrum that I’m probably

5:47 sitting in a in a sweet spot that uh I’m I’m probably doing something right if I’m offering reasons for people to remain faithful and reasons for people to to feel Justified and not remaining faithful well uh on behalf of so so many of my listeners and viewers and friends we’re all just loving what you do and in awe of it and cheering you on oh thank you so much in all the good ways thank you yeah glad to hear that recently I read an author who said our Leisure even our play is a matter of serious concern that is because there is no neutral ground in the universe every square inch every Split Second is claimed by God and counterclaimed by Satan I believe that to be absolutely true and no such claiming and counter-claiming anywhere is more crucial and conspicuous than that being waged for the minds and morals the personal purity of the young brethren part of my warning Voice tonight is that this will only get worse while I was serving as the president of

7:06 Brigham Young University Idaho elderly Jeffrey R Holland came to the campus in December of 1998 to speak in one of our weekly devotionals Susan and I invited a group of students to meet and visit with elder Holland before he delivered his message as our time together was drawing to a close I asked Dillard Holland \[Music\] these students just one thing what would it be he answered quote we are witnessing an Ever greater movement toward polarity the middle ground options will be removed from us as Latter-day Saints the middle of the road will be withdrawn if you are treading water in the current of a river you will go somewhere you simply will go wherever the current takes you going with the stream following the tide drifting in the current will not do choices have to be made not making a choice is a choice learn to choose now close quote Elder Holland’s statement about increasing polarization

8:18 has been proven prophetic by the societal Trends and events of the 22 years since he answered my question foretelling the widening Divergence between the ways of the Lord and of the world Elder Holland warned that the days of comfortably having one foot in the restored Church and one foot in the world were Vanishing quickly this servant of the Lord was encouraging the young people to choose prepare and become devoted Disciples of the savior so do you enjoy the content here on thoughtful faith if so be sure to hit the notification Bell this ensures that our new videos show up on your feed also be sure to check out our Facebook group called thoughtful Saints where myself and others discuss the sorts of topics found on this channel and lastly if you think other people would benefit from this video please be sure to share it