Key Takeaways


Jordi Visser, a veteran macro investor and AI strategist, envisions a radical shift in global markets driven by the convergence of artificial intelligence and Bitcoin, predicting the 2030s will be a "graveyard for the Fortune 500" as nimble, AI-native startups outpace legacy incumbents. Grounded in Joseph Schumpeter’s concept of creative destruction, Visser argues that traditional indicators like LEIs no longer reflect economic reality, as the digital economy, powered by AI and Bitcoin, generates real growth outside the industrial framework. This shift is accelerating innovation, enabling lean startups to scale rapidly without needing public capital, while Bitcoin emerges as a foundational financial asset and hedge against the chaos of AI disruption. With the U.S. and China racing toward Artificial Superintelligence, the bottlenecks lie not in software, but in energy and rare earth supply chains, especially copper. Ultimately, Visser foresees a future of abundance, where human creativity flourishes, startups thrive in tokenized ecosystems, and Bitcoin acts as the financial backbone of a post-industrial world.

Best Quotes

"The 2030s will be a graveyard for the Fortune 500."

"Bitcoin is the S&P 500 of the future."

"AI is forcing China and the US to deregulate faster than ever."

"The industrial economy has stopped growing. The digital economy is growing fast, with no debt and very few people."

"If you pair AI productivity with Bitcoin on the balance sheet, you can supercharge your business."

"I’ve said repeatedly: the most important chart is Bitcoin vs. the Mag 7."

"Creative destruction is here, and AI is the tsunami."

"Stablecoins are the bridge from fiat to Bitcoin."

"Power is what will slow us down, not code."

"Don't fear AI. Use it. Play with it every day. Let it become part of how you think."

Conclusion

Jordi Visser envisions a transformative future shaped by the convergence of exponential AI and Bitcoin, where traditional economic models and corporate structures give way to agile, AI-driven ventures and Bitcoin-backed holding companies. He sees Bitcoin not merely as digital gold, but as the ultimate store of future-oriented value, empowering individuals and startups to thrive amid accelerating creative destruction. Though the outlook is disruptive, Visser’s message is optimistic: those who embrace these tools and adapt early will be best positioned to succeed in the coming decade of abundance. The future, he insists, belongs to the bold, and to those who think in Bitcoin.

Timestamps

0:00 - Intro

0:48 - Breakdown of leading indicators

5:47 - Navigating AI disruption

9:32 - Vibe coding and creative work

13:48 - Bitkey & Opportunity Cost

15:27 - Mag7 impact?

19:10 - Private companies staying private

22:51 - AI-powered rapid companies

27:28 - Unchained

27:53 - AI talent war and Zuck is fearful

35:06 - Energy expansion

41:43 - Ercot and bitcoin’s energy impact

49:08 - Bitcoinization timeline & stables

57:32 - Navigating AI with your children

Transcript

(00:00) It's never happened in capitalism that one of the largest companies on the planet that had increased their market cap by 1.5 trillion over the prior 3 years would fire 5% of their workforce. Gradually over time, the incumbents which make up the S&P 500 will be under extreme attack and I don't think they're going to be replaced. The 2030s will be a graveyard for the Fortune 500.

(00:18) AI is forcing China and the US to race faster than ever and deregulate. And if you have ASI, then everything accelerates from that day and you can't catch up. Is there anything outside of the inability to expand energy generation that would slow us down? There's just no way to compete with AI because the only thing that can move is fast.

(00:35) England to me is a hedge on the destruction of AI is Bitcoin. Bitcoin represents the S&P 500 of the future. It's the only asset to me that has a moat other than gold. Jordy Visser, thank you for joining me. Good to be here, Marty. As I was saying, I've been uh a big fan of your weekly weekly updates. I think you're on top of converging trends better than than most people right now, particularly as it pertains to AI, uh Bitcoin, broader crypto, and how it's actually affecting the markets right now.

(01:16) And I think a good jumping off point for this conversation is something that you've been talking about a lot which is this dislocation between leading economic indicators and what's acting in the sense that many indicators that people have been depending on for decades seem to be um sending off alarm bells that things may not all be well.

(01:40) But I I think your your thesis is that AI is having an overwhelming effect on the market that is making those what have been dependable indicators independible right now. Yeah, it's actually interesting. I'm I'm going to uh I I I'll go backwards a little bit so people can understand the uh the rationale behind it because I think it's one of the more important points and and there's a uh a jumping off point where I really started to recognize.

(02:09) So I'm I grew up uh in the business starting in the 90 early 90s as a macro person. I traded emerging markets throughout the '9s and I spent a lot of time with the history of the LEI, leading economic indicators and and Jeffrey Moore because not a lot of people follow it, but it was a extremely useful tool a long time ago to predict and this is why it was created to help the government see when the economy was slowing down so monetary policy wouldn't be as late and fiscal policy wouldn't be as late.

(02:40) So you kind of fast forward to 1980. The LEI came out in the '60s and something really important changed and the personal computer came out. Then the internet in the '9s and then we obviously started to get into the true internet boom in in the 2000s and the software and smartphone boom that kind of took over the 2009 to 2010 period.

(03:05) So what I've basically said is that the economy has been changing. So if you go back to when the lei was created, it was basically an industrial economy and that was it. Uh there was no digital economy because we didn't have this the the personal computer yet.

(03:22) So if you go from really the beginning or the end of of the great depression and you start going back in history and learning how the government would try to measure the concept of GDP, the actual index was created in the 1930s by Simon Kousnet. So this stuff was all meant to be around tangible assets, tangible goods, tangible transactions. And obviously as the digital economy started to grow, let's assume it was, you know, less than 1% of the of the US economy by 1990, then the internet comes and it's it's growing rapidly, but from such a small base. And this will resonate with, you know, people that have been involved in

(03:56) Bitcoin since 2009. It was very small asset. It's grown bigger. Well, the digital economy has grown bigger as well. So what happens is the industrial economy still has a lot of people working in it, still has a lot of debt in it.

(04:14) So the reason the lei is no longer sending off good signals is really one important event occurred in 2007 to 2009 when the great financial crisis happened. The digital economy in my opinion forced that event to occur. Uh it created uh a situation where you had so much debt for other companies that were already seeing their businesses being disrupted. And most people don't think of it that way, but go to the last time you actually used a bank teller. That was before the great financial crisis.

(04:37) So, we've been having disruptions for a long time. And when the great financial crisis happened, the government had to stand up and assume the debt. And so, we went from 9 trillion in debt for the for the US government back in 2007 to where we are today, which is a massive problem.

(04:56) Bitcoin uh white paper comes out just after Lehman Brothers and all these events kind of come in. So what's happened is now we're left with a an industrial economy which is relatively big but not growing anymore and shrinking. A government which is there to balloon or take over that part of the economy. And then you've got the digital economy which is growing extremely fast but has no debt and very few people.

(05:17) And that's where we're at. And that's why the LEI is no longer a useful signal because the industrial economy is not what's generating the wealth and the growth evident in the S&P 500 consumption and actually the disruption. It's only going to get worse from here. So that's the reason why when I spend time on hey how can the LEI be trading 35 months in a row at a level that historically was always a recession and not have one and the reason is because the digital economy is really supporting the market and growing along with the government economy. And so this is a combination of watching

(05:51) your updates, obviously being immersed in Bitcoin for years, uh, investing in the space and really studying Bitcoin and over the last three years as AI has proliferated um, using those tools, incorporating them into my workflow, into our business here at TFTC and at 1031.

(06:14) Like it the sentiment I think you do a really good job like pulling this out. It's like equally unnerving and exciting at the same time because there's so much potential. But if you use the tools, you understand what they do to your business, and you extrapolate that out to uh not only small mediumsiz businesses, but large corporations, the S&P 500, uh the disruption is going to be massive, but at the same time, there's these incredible opportunities.

(06:38) So, how are you thinking about approaching this