Key Takeaways


Carlos and Ali, founders of Forager and White Paper Studio, are using a Bitcoin-backed financing model to solve indie filmmakers’ biggest challenge, access to capital, while protecting creative independence. Inspired by Michael Saylor’s treasury strategy, they allocate a portion of raised funds into Bitcoin, using its growth over multi-year terms to repay investors 5–10% in dollars, attracting capital that wouldn’t normally touch film. This model shields artists from investor influence, supports original storytelling in an industry dominated by safe bets and sequels, and promotes transparency by making treasury and repayment performance public. They see AI as a useful tool for concepting but believe human creativity remains irreplaceable, envisioning a future where fully human-made films become a premium choice, funded by smarter, Bitcoin-enabled capital.

Best Quotes

“Putting Bitcoin on our balance sheet… is the one thing that’s actually preserving our hard work in the long run.”

“We are in charge of repaying the investor with our Bitcoin strategy and you guys can just focus on the art… They have no say over the creative.”

“Our early investors didn’t even care so much about the films… They could just park it here and get a better yield.”

“There’s less funds going around for risky original IP… It feels like a race to the bottom.”

“There’s no children’s movies these days that actually have real people… It’s all animated stuff.”

“There was a cool trend of betting on artists with great vision… That kind of risk-taking doesn’t exist as much anymore.”

“It’s a great tool… but it’s not a magic bullet.”

“An entirely human production in the future might be like shooting on film now… something authentic and special.”

Conclusion

White Paper Studio’s Bitcoin-backed funding model could quietly transform independent film financing, offering investors steady returns while freeing creators from the commercial constraints of traditional funding. By combining financial resilience, creative autonomy, and transparency, it challenges Hollywood’s risk-averse culture and supports the revival of bold, original storytelling. In a time of AI disruption and shrinking budgets, it shows how Bitcoin can preserve and empower human creativity, potentially sparking a renewed era of risk-taking and authenticity in cinema.

Timestamps

0:00 - Intro

0:36 - The story of Forager

8:11 - Small world for Marty

10:48 - Whtppr and the indie film capital problem

19:04 - Bitkey & Opportunity Cost

20:43 - Mechanics of the bitcoin fund

27:36 - Defining success for Whtppr

30:25 - Unchained

31:12 - Bringing back what’s been lost

42:12 - Upcoming short films

44:34 - AI content

56:46 - Wrapping

Transcript

(00:00) We took a lot of inspiration from Sailor. Our early investors, they didn't even care so much about the films. They were just kind of like, "Oh, I have mutual funds giving me this. I could just park it here and I get a better yield." It is causing the industry to contract. Putting Bitcoin on our balance sheet for a germ, it is the one thing that's actually preserving our hard work in the long run because we still need great films that are telling human stories that are made by people with people.

(00:26) Film is perhaps one of the riskiest business you can get into as an investor. Carlos and Alli, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Thank you, Marty. This is uh I'm I'm happy to be speaking with you guys cuz it's a budding theme on this show.

(00:50) very small theme but a budding one and one that excites me because I think it's a a signal that that Bitcoin is breaking out of the bubbles, the community bubbles that have existed in my 12 years following. It seems that what you guys are doing at Forager really validates Bitcoin being used as a tool by by anybody, not just cipher punks or people that care about sound money, but what you guys are doing at Forager in the world of entertainment.

(01:20) and Carlos, we were just talking before you we hit record that you heard my discussion with Johnny Vance um from Total Twins and Angel Studio and reached out and as I was also telling you I have a friend a very very close friend and we've been talking about this idea quite a bit the intersection of Bitcoin and entertainment in attempt to get better art into the world and let smaller um artists, content creators, whatever you want to define them as uh get their work into the world and actually give them a chance to compete with the the mega studios of the world.

(01:56) So before we jump into the the broader discussion of this intersection, why don't we start with a couple introductions just um how you guys got to where you are, what you're doing at Forager, and um what uh what got you to the to thinking about Bitcoin specifically? Sure.

(02:20) Um, Carl, I can give my intro then I'll let you take it. Um, so I went to film school. I majored in screenwriting and then I found my way to New York. I landed in advertising. So it was not where I expected to be after film school. You know, right out of film school, I'm thinking, okay, I'm going to go and I'm going to work for a studio.

(02:38) I'm going to be on set. I'm going to, you know, live the dream. And I found that being on set and everything that I had imagined about film making, once I did get my feet wet into some live action production for commercials was not super aligned with the way that I uh prefer to to live my life and to structure my life.

(03:06) I'm very routine oriented and I really enjoyed how how the tech side of postp production was evolving and could make so many more things possible than you know just what it is captured on set. Now so much respect for what happens on set. I just was not of that same you know mindset and stamina to be working those kinds of hours.

(03:30) Um, and so I found my way into the post-production side of advertising and um, worked as an EP at a couple of different post houses. And along the way, I met Carlos um, and we decided to start forager together after working together for some time and I was getting ready to move into the freelance world, which he had been occupying for um, his entire career up until that point um, before moving from New York to Portland.

(04:03) So that was what um gave the idea to start Forager as a remote collective of post-prouction artists. Uh we saw at the time that there was a real need to give a platform for individuals in the post space who were not represented by legacy post houses for any number of reasons. You know they enjoyed being freelance. They liked the autonomy, having their own brand, and they just needed that production support which I could bring um to the team and which we've built alongside the producers at Forager along the way.

(04:35) Um and different already different tech was available to us at that time at like Slack and and Frame.io that made it possible to collaborate in real time from anywhere. Um, so we launched Forager with this unique perspective on bringing together the best talent no matter where they were located. Um, so we're pioneers in that sense because it was still um different to say that we didn't have um a a brick and mortar place to go to for clients to go to to supervise.

(05:10) And then that was January 2019, a year later it became the norm during co for everyone to work remotely. So, a little bit ahead of the game there. Um, and we've taken everything we've learned from from building this um this network of great creative and um Charles will, you know, give his intro and how we started building Bitcoin into the picture as well along the way. Yeah. Uh, yeah.

(05:37) Essentially, exactly what Ali said. I think Bitcoin surprisingly entered our radar very early on almost by uh yeah almost by chance uh because uh we started the company 2019. the pandemic hit 2020 and we were down of course as everyone else for for a little bit and at that moment I was uh starting to just research you know what stocks to buy like any like every person back then and I stumbled upon Bitcoin in the at the moment just from like an interview that I saw on YouTube and um and yeah I bought it personally not knowing much just kind of like bought it personally as an opportunity Uh Alli and I are good friends. So I I

(06:23) talked Alli into buying some personally as well. Uh and we were so small and informal. We were like, you know, it why not buy it and put it on forers balance sheet. Uh and this was before uh even a sailor had appeared on uh on X. It was like I think June 2020 when we first bought and we were small. We just bought I think one to begin with.

(06:49) Um and yeah, then uh we we saw the whole strategy thing happening. We were like, "Oh, this is going to be a thing." So we we started buying more. Um still a humble treasury. Uh but um but yeah, of course, we rode the whole thing up to the 60K.

(07:08) Then we felt a little silly when, you know, it it went all the way down in the bare market. Uh but that was kind of like our uh introduction to Bitcoin. like we buy by by buying it almost naively at first not knowing much but then you see this thing going up. We learned what it was. We got orange filled in the process and uh and we thankfully held it for this whole time and it was only in um earlier this year where we were like dealing with some uh liquidity crunches that we were like you know we have built this treasury.

(07:40) we want to maintain it and uh and we thought what if we were to uh leverage that treasury in order to raise some funds so we can uh survive and like you know get through this uh rocky period and so we did that but we also announced to the wor